tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post109316847400123925..comments2023-02-20T02:03:44.375+13:00Comments on Notions Incognito: The fruit of abiding with the Spirit - IntroductionNotions Incognitohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03563317972349417700noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-1114032315278727142005-04-21T09:25:00.000+12:002005-04-21T09:25:00.000+12:00The thing that I caught in you teaching here is th...The thing that I caught in you teaching here is that you say the Holy Ghost is a person, and a third person in a trinity. But the Bible does not state that. The Bible says:<BR/><BR/>John 4:24 "God is a spirit..."<BR/>Ephesians 4:4 "There is...one spirit..."<BR/>1 Cor 12:11 "One and the selfsame spirit..."<BR/>2 Cor 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit..."<BR/>Acts 10:36 "...Jesus Christ(He is Lord of all)"<BR/>Mark 12:29 "THE FIRST OF ALL THE COMMANDMENTS IS, Hear, O Israel; THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD..." <BR/><BR/>Mark 12:29 "God is one."<BR/>Col 3:11 "Christ is all."<BR/>Col 2:10 "And ye are complete in him (Christ)."<BR/><BR/>Isaiah 43:10-15 "...Believe me,and understand that I am He: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior...Thus saith the Lord, your redeemer, The Holy One of Israel...I AM THE LORD **YOUR HOLY ONE** THE CREATOR OF Israel, your King." <BR/><BR/>2 Cor 11:12 "...I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you TO ONE husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin TO CHRIST. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpant beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."<BR/><BR/>If you have any questions, feel free to ask.<BR/><BR/>From Sonya Marlene Snedden<BR/>sonya_marlene_snedden@yahoo.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-1093413288209369582004-08-25T17:54:00.000+12:002004-08-25T17:54:00.000+12:00Katherine, I posted about the control / sovereignt...Katherine, I posted about the control / sovereignty thing a while ago. I'll be taking a practical line of discussion on these I hope... unfortunately I'm going on skiing holiday now for 10 days so I won't be able to post until I return.Notions Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03563317972349417700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-1093409782911080512004-08-25T16:56:00.000+12:002004-08-25T16:56:00.000+12:00I tend to think of it in this way (at least at the...I tend to think of it in this way (at least at the moment): God doesn't force Himself on us, but works in us to about the degree that we let Him. This is all part of the free will thing. Sure, He can take control of our lives and our characters, but only if we submit to Him, both in a general sense and in each action. <br /><br />We invite Him to work in us and change us completely, and when we've done that, He will do so, because we've relinquished control and given Him free reign, and then the fruits will start to appear of their own accord. <br /><br />However, if there are parts of our lives that we haven't submitted to Him (though we may think we have, perhaps), in these areas He withholds His influence. If He did not, He would be violating our free will, which would be against His character and the kind of love He has chosen to show us. We can, of course, ask Him to reveal such areas to us, and make us more willing to relinquish control, and then He will. This is what He wants, but He will not force us.<br /><br />That said, I think He can also act in people without their knowledge, in response to the prayers of others. The Bible talks of instances in which God controls people, seemingly without their being aware of it, such as when He 'hardened Pharaoh's heart', or moved Artaxerxes to let Nehemiah go and rebuild Jerusalem. These were people who weren't submitted to God themselves, yet God wrought changes in their hearts for the benefit of His people. We routinely ask God to intervene in the world in this way. And presumably He would do the same if we were praying for a Christian, asking Him to speak to them or help them to change. Perhaps God acts in this way only when His people ask Him to. <br /><br />I might be way off the mark there. Corrections welcome.Kathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01068522009052343860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-1093394490240733092004-08-25T12:41:00.000+12:002004-08-25T12:41:00.000+12:00I completely agree that the lists going on in the ...I completely agree that the lists going on in the bible are not exhaustive for example what Paul lists in 1 Corinthians 12 differs from what he lists in Romans 12. Furthermore I think that it might not be possible to have all the fruits of the spirit in a similar way that no one (except Jesus) has/had all the gifts of the spirit. But that each is cultivated in its time and is in season when it is required. As we walk further with Christ the fruit is more abundant and more ready to appear.<br />Possibly some fruit come easier to some people than others, some people might be natural givers whereas others naturally humble. In this situation truly displaying the fruits of the spirit would not be performing those actions that come easily to us but rather those that don't come easily. Then these actions come not out of ourselves but out of God and we cannot glorify in ourselves.<br />As we walk further with God we will close in on having all the fruit of the spirit (glorification) and they will become more and more natural for us to express. Even those that intially were easy for us to perform will be transformed by the work of the spirit in us and it will become harder and harder for us to glorify ourselves. And we will be happier, more joyous for it.<br />Finally we should be weary of not falling into the same trap as the Rich Young Ruler who thought he had everything and then Jesus pointed out more that he had to do. If ever we think that we have all of the fruits of the spirit God will subtlely slap us across the face with something that will cause us to shudder back (like giving away EVERYTHING). But in the long run God will bring us back to that place and we will take the step with him. As C.S. Lewis said in the Horse and his Boy 'when you do something good often your reward is something even harder' [paraphrased]. The process of glorification is our lifetime and will not be complete while we walk on the green earth.<br /><br />Anyway those are the thoughts of a coffee-addled mind.Jaredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00444816485070125501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-1093238586723657432004-08-23T17:23:00.000+12:002004-08-23T17:23:00.000+12:00I think once we make a habit of righteous thoughts...I think once we make a habit of righteous thoughts, we no longer have to struggle with them or conciously think about them. However, most of the time, to change our thought patters (which stems from our heart, and governs our character) we need to do it conciously. <br /><br />Yes, if a certain fruit is mature in a believer, he or she is right not to be focussing on it - it would be wrong to be so focussed on doing right, and probably lead to the satesfaction of 'being good' becoming the motivation for doing right. You are quite right that we should fix the gaze of our hearts upon Jesus primarily. When we do this, we naturally begin to include loving others in our focus.<br /><br />In fact, staying focussed on Christ probably makes it easier to deal with sin in our own lives - because it motivates us to leave behind the evil that weighs us down as we run towards Christ... so to speak.Notions Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03563317972349417700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-1093230580896782712004-08-23T15:09:00.000+12:002004-08-23T15:09:00.000+12:00Firstly, I don't think the list of the fruits of t...Firstly, I don't think the list of the fruits of the Spirit is exhaustive. 'Self-control' covers a large number of virtues, humility included. <br /><br />Secondly, I think we must sometimes make a very concious effort to choose to show the fruits in our actions. That is part of becoming like Christ - choosing righteousness. It is not only the rightouesness of the Spirit that is revealed out of our hearts, but it everything that is in our hearts - evil included. In my opinion, to think only the good shines out while the evil is not seen is to neglect the obvious. Sure, the Spirit may be shining in us, but that makes the evil that it's shining through even more obvious. Evil acts like putting a dirty cloth over a light.Notions Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03563317972349417700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-1093229985318225112004-08-23T14:59:00.000+12:002004-08-23T14:59:00.000+12:00Yep, i think i would agree with that Reuben! the f...Yep, i think i would agree with that Reuben! the fruits ripening. but i would add that in the end everyone will display the same amount of each fruit, (an ideal situation. just based on what you said in the second para about everyone not having the same amount) we are maturing towards that stage i guess!<br /><br />Hey Kai Li! sorry to be really nitpicky here! i dont think humility is a fruit. (Love joy peace patience, kindness,goodness,faithfulness,gentleness,self control) <br />*cringes for fear of causing retribution*<br /><br />I reckon, that it shouldnt be a conscious effort to display the fruits, but rather they permeate your being. (i guess though, this is at the later mautration stage) and having the Spirit living within you, it shines through, therefore God is living through you and His ways become the natural ways. we dont have to make an effort to do it.<br /><br />What say thee?Philotashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704879994825376720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-1093229848870653152004-08-23T14:57:00.000+12:002004-08-23T14:57:00.000+12:00Yes, these fruits a born from our of the Spirit li...Yes, these fruits a born from our of the Spirit living in us. <br /><br />Yet, I have just had another thought. It is important to note that some non-Christians display considerable kindness, humility, etc. Some would ask, "if the Spirit is not in them, are these actions really true kindness, humility, etc.?" If you say they are not true acts of kindness etc then what on earth are they? A facade? <br /><br />I suggest they are true fruits of the Spirit, because the outworking of the Spirit's influence is not constrained to those who only have the Spirit. Although the Spirit tends to only work IN Christian in whom He abides, those Christians influence many others with the fruit of the Spirit. Such kind non-Christians were no doubt previously influenced by Godly men and women of God, who the Spirit taught kindness, and who passed that kindness on. <br /><br />This is, in my opinion, the practicality of the blessings of God that last for 1000 generations (you can look that one up if you want). So, in a very corperate sense, the fruits of the Spirit are evidenced in even non-Christian's kind actions, etc, because it was the Spirit that first imparted the fruit to Christians who shared that fruit with even non-Christians.<br /><br />I have met some very Godly non-Christians.Notions Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03563317972349417700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-1093218226695433732004-08-23T11:43:00.000+12:002004-08-23T11:43:00.000+12:00I think someone who has the Spirit will develop al...I think someone who has the Spirit will develop all those fruits. And once they grow all of them will be shown - but not necessarily ALL THE TIME. The amount of the fruit demonstrated in the day to day could be termed the yield, for want of a better word. This is crucial I think - because it is obvious that even good Christians don't show some of these fruit sometimes. So I'm suggesting that not only is the quality of the fruit increased, but that there should also be an increase in how frequently the fruit are obvious. <br /><br />There is a real danger, I think, in saying that the fruit of the Spirit in every Christian is the same quality and yield. Some apples are delicious, others are just plain disgusting - but it doesn't change the fact that they are both apples. Some fruit trees yield many fruit, while others (particularly imature trees) yield practically nothing. But although these imature trees are not yielding any fruit presently, it does not mean the fruit is not on the way - perhaps in a few more seasons. <br /><br />Likewise, the fruit we display is given flavour by our character, and its yield is governed by our maturity in Christ. Spiritually imature Christians may not display any fruit at all, while others may immediately flourish - it depends on the fruit and the character of the person I think. Certainly, the Spirit works to produce ALL the fruit in every believer, but some people require much time to grow or heal before they start producing any fruit. As with well-tended apple trees, the yield of the fruit increases as we mature. <br /><br />What do you make of these thoughts?Notions Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03563317972349417700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-1093169774329064902004-08-22T22:16:00.000+12:002004-08-22T22:16:00.000+12:00Nice work there! :)
we have just finished this to...Nice work there! :) <br />we have just finished this topic in our small group. <br /><br />I was just thinking though, i dont think its possible to only have 1 or 2 of the fruits. I think that if you have the Spirit living in you, you WILL display all those qualities, just as a natural byproduct. <br /><br />Gifts of the Spirit, sure, not everyone has all of those. some people may not even have any. but if we are living in God, then The Holy Spirit will shine the fruits through our personality.<br /><br />Does this mean that if someone isnt displaying all fruits then they dont have the Spirit in them? maybe. i havent worked this part out yet! :P maybe the Holy Spirit is still working at their hearts. But yes, i definately think its all or nothing.Philotashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704879994825376720noreply@blogger.com