tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post6161496903999304908..comments2023-02-20T02:03:44.375+13:00Comments on Notions Incognito: Getting information vs learning wisdomNotions Incognitohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03563317972349417700noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-27218842526209519882007-09-21T15:10:00.000+12:002007-09-21T15:10:00.000+12:00Done and done :PDone and done :PChristinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13869497960583041676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-24428122410754986902007-09-20T15:17:00.000+12:002007-09-20T15:17:00.000+12:00Excuse me while I help myself to the insight of yo...Excuse me while I help myself to the insight of your original post. Telling someone facts and giving them information does provide them with a small opportunity to become wiser than they would have had otherwise. However, as you point out, by actually engaging them in reciprocal communication (read: argument) you are giving them a much richer opportunity to become wiser. I think this goes a little way towards answering the follow up question to the one I just asked: <I>How</I> can I personally help someone become more wise, (beyond the rather indirect method of enriching their environment)?<BR/><BR/>Ps. At about this point I wish someone would come along and tell us we’re both being silly and talking a lot of nonsense.erahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11782131296865723421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-42267003792958898872007-09-20T13:20:00.000+12:002007-09-20T13:20:00.000+12:00Well, there are lots of ways of looking at that. A...Well, there are lots of ways of looking at that. According to our previous discussion, you'd probably be more helpful than having no one to talk to. The issue then, is not so much whether you can help, but whether you can help more than alternatives that people have (e.g. talking with other people, not talking with you). I think you've helped me to become a little more wise. This post echoed a few of our discussions. So at least in my case, I think the answer to your question is yes. =)Notions Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03563317972349417700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-32183450238253041552007-09-20T12:40:00.000+12:002007-09-20T12:40:00.000+12:00Curiously, I've been reading Robinson Crusoe recen...Curiously, I've been reading Robinson Crusoe recently, which is the story of a person becoming wise while isolated on a desert island for 20 years. If Defoe's portrayal is possible, then we're probably wrong. But I'm inclined disagree with Defoe and agree with you that a community and communication are prerequisite to becoming wise.<BR/><BR/>To me the question then becomes, can I personally help someone become more wise, beyond the rather indirect method of enriching their environment?erahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11782131296865723421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-82608628003862085082007-09-20T12:24:00.000+12:002007-09-20T12:24:00.000+12:00Let's think about your point number 3 for a momen....Let's think about your point number 3 for a momen... Imagine a person who is totally alone, with no other people or even animals to interact with. It seems difficult that a person in such a situation would have opportunity to learn much wisdom. If the person had opportunity to interact with other people, he would have greater opportunity to learn wisdom. Hence, if you are capable of giving that person opportunity to interact with other people, you are capable of helping him grow wiser. <BR/><BR/>This example can be extended by considering the nature of the opportunities you are able to provide. For example, if you can only provide this person with 6 month old infants to interact with, you'd hardly expect these to help him learn as much wisdom as giving him a whole community to interact with. Extending the argument to its conclusion, I think it is obvious that the richer a person's environment, the more opportunity they have to learn. This, I believe, is an obvious and well-established principle of education. Hence, I believe we can help people become wiser by enrichening their mental environment. <BR/><BR/>Do you still disagree?Notions Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03563317972349417700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-66436503395128220982007-09-20T12:11:00.000+12:002007-09-20T12:11:00.000+12:00Possibly also 3) It is not actually possible to ev...Possibly also 3) It is not actually possible to even help someone learn to be wise?<BR/><BR/>Some of Plato’s dialogues address the question of teaching wisdom, which is why I'm curious to push you on some of the points they raise. I think Plato believes he has a solution, though he doesn't tell you it. Surely beginning The Academy is more than accidental philanthropy.erahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11782131296865723421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-91944215499023352502007-09-20T11:58:00.000+12:002007-09-20T11:58:00.000+12:00No, I can't, for two reasons:1) I don't think it i...No, I can't, for two reasons:<BR/>1) I don't think it is as formulaic as you are asking for here.<BR/>2) I don't think I know it - that's why I wrote this post.Notions Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03563317972349417700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-47216336443386209682007-09-20T11:48:00.000+12:002007-09-20T11:48:00.000+12:00Can you explain to me the process of helping someo...Can you explain to me the process of helping someone learn to be wise then? Something along the lines of your cooking analogy, but applied to wisdom instead of cooking.erahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11782131296865723421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-44198002687169760172007-09-20T11:27:00.000+12:002007-09-20T11:27:00.000+12:00I don't think it can be taught in the same way inf...I don't think it can be taught in the same way information can be taught, as I said in my post. It must be learned. Yet, I think people can help facilitate others to learn. People can provide some stimulus to help people learn wisdom, perhaps providing necessary input to help people learn.<BR/><BR/>Here's a probably poor analogy. It might be like giving people the necessary ingredients for them to cook a good meal, and perhaps even a cookbook. These things help people cook, but it's it's the person that does the cooking. Without having such ingredients and recipies, though, I don't think people would get the chance to learn to be good chefs.Notions Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03563317972349417700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7442903.post-60837099447966049672007-09-20T10:05:00.000+12:002007-09-20T10:05:00.000+12:00Can widsom be taught though?Can widsom be taught though?erahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11782131296865723421noreply@blogger.com